Online Development

Creativity Cafe's 2001 Community Forum: Creativity Cafe Development: Online Development
By Peter H. Rosen (Admin) on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 09:45 am:

A seed:


I will respond to your nice reply to my parachute pitch soon.

The third paragraph reminds me of those experiencing LIMINALTIY:
the state of BEING on the threshold. A place where the past no longer serves us as foundation for future relationships...of governments, business, organizations and individuals. We have gone as far as we can with old models. The cultural creatives are finding each other and discovering they hold pieces of the puzzle; the unfoldment of new awareness realities and ways of BEING. They are beginning to discover and identify each other and the "fit" of their respective puzzle pieces (threads in my previous post). What appears as chaos to most are really the edge that liminal space some people dance on, where cultural creatives live, that confronts and induces fear in normative folks....who by the way, ARE the market for various edutaiments conjoured by CC folk at CCafe with both online and MORE IMPORTANTLY, physical meeting grounds.


Here's the e-mail I got from Linda Strasburg. Note, particularly, her
third paragraph.


Sat, 3 Mar 2001 )
From: "Linda A. Strasburg"
Subject: Re: Much in Common
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:21:28 -0700

Dear Cliff
I enjoyed reading your comments to Jan and Lee. I have not read Indigo Children but I have read and interviewed Thom Hartman (Every book he has published, I have reviewed on my program.), and Dorene Virtue. Both of them were exceptional interviews. You, along with Thom and Dorene, have theÊability to "see" things that other people can't see and you also have the ability to write and speak about it, which is the other gift. (Besides Thom is one of my heroes because he helped me to see that my ADD was a positive, survival trait.)

I can tell from this letter Indigo Children has sparked some new passion in you. This is just a thought right now, but do you think a conference interview with Jan, Lee, and yourself would be an interesting radio program? We could discuss some of the ideas and thoughts you haveÊposed in this letter.ÊÊÊ

Next weekÊI am starting a wisdom circle (a monthlyÊgroup meeting) to discuss the ideas presented in the book, "Cultural Creatives, by Paul Ray. (Have you read that book?) ItÊcoincides with your idea that cultural creative peopleÊhave much in common, but most of us are notÊdiscussing the commonalities and celebrating the differences. ÊMaybe this is the circle you are looking for. Most cultural creativesÊare not in touch, we think we are alone in thinking about the relationship between the spiritual and the material.ÊTheÊgoal of theÊ"circle" is not only to find commonalities but to celebrate and discuss differences, cultivate new ideas and refine philosophies. Cultural creatives are much likeÊindigo children.Ê

Like you, the book TheÊAquarian Conspiracy touched a nerveÊin me when I first read it. After reading it, feeling a kinship with the ideas, I put itÊback on my library shelf and waited for its time to come. After a number of yearsÊmore books began to surface that were second generationÊAquarian ideas. Over the years I have interviewed many people who have added to and developedÊthe original Aquarian perspectives. Today my goal for my radio programs is toÊfind books and ideasÊthat balance the spiritual withÊthe material.ÊÊIn the past I have achieved this balance with separate books, lately I am finding that single books do this quite well (like your Meaning book). My other goal is to "champion" these new realities. More and more I am getting less in trouble for doing this and receiving more input and support for this "indigo" perspective. (Do you see a commonality between what you and I have been experiencing?)ÊAre othersÊtraversingÊthis same evolutionary plain?

Thanks for keeping me in theÊloop of ideas. Something about all this really excites "the new energy" in me. .

Go to my web site (It is still in development) and click on the past and future radio programs buttons. You will see the programs and interviews that I am referring to.

Linda Strasburg
Host - InterViews & InterActions
KTKK Radio

----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Havener
To: Jan Tober and Lee Carroll
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 1:50 PM
Subject: Much in Common

Dear Jan, Lee, and all the authors who contributed to Indigo Children:

I'm writing to you because I just finished reading Indigo Children and I see a powerful connection between us. Before I get into that, I need to give you some background on me. I'm 63 years old. I have never been deeply involved with mysticism, the occult, etc. but I did spend some time, in the early 80s, working, on and off, with Marilyn Ferguson, who wrote The Aquarian Conspiracy. I was looking for "a home". I'd read her book, said to myself, "she just described my life" and decided that her "circle" might be the home I was looking for. It wasn't. What I found was a group of people who emphasized the spiritual aspects of life, but who were just as antagonistic toward those who embraced only material reality as the latter were toward them. That wasn't "home". However, in one of Marilyn's workshops, I met a woman who read chakras. I didn't think much of it at the time, but it stuck with me, and now it's relevant. She told me my dominant or "soul" chakra was located at the top of my head and its color was indigo. I asked her "So?" She replied that it meant my mind was very "fast" and I could "see" things other people couldn't see. Since I already knew that, I just made a mental note and continued searching.

A couple of years later, I was working on a new business development project with two young men, one of whom, I learned, was clairvoyant. One day he asked me if I knew why I existed. I replied "No". He responded with "You are one of a very small number, in your generation, of an advance force. You are here to help pave the way for those who are coming who have a very different view of life and reality than we have now." I thanked him, but thought to myself, "O.K., I don't know if that's true or not but it doesn't matter. I'm going to do what my instincts tell me to do and if it happens, it happens". It appears that his prophecy is coming true.

For at least the last forty years, I've carried what I thought was a book title around in my head - "Champion of Champions". I've written a couple of books and started a couple more, but I've never tried to write this one. I now know why. It's not a book title. It's the way my purpose showed up. It means to champion the cause of the coming champions.

In May, 1999, (interestingly, the same publication date as Indigo Children) I published a book entitled Meaning - The Secret of Being Alive. The impetus for the book was the question "How come my best stuff gets me into the most trouble?" I spent 25 years, from 1972 to 1997, looking for an answer that I found satisfactory. I found the basis of it in General Systems Theory, in the mid-80s, and figured out the rest. The book describes what I found and figured out - the essential difference between a "normative" view of reality, the one we've lived in for at least the last 8,000 years and the emerging "integrative" view of reality. I'm totally convinced that the integrative view of reality is what makes "Indigos" Indigos. So you could describe Meaning as a book written by an Indigo whose purpose is to support Indigos.

Here are a few examples of the commonality between Meaning and Indigo Children.

In the Introduction of Indigo Children you wrote "As you can see, a number of factors brought about this book, which you should know about before you blindly take our word for something that is going to fall into the category of 'happening all around us - but unexplainable'." I took this to mean that what I'll call "the Indigo perspective" is "unexplainable". It's not. It's easily explained and that's what Meaning does. But it is incomprehensible to anyone with a "normative" view of reality. That's because it is, at its core, the essential opposite of the "normative" perspective. The normative perspective tears things apart, separating and isolating the component parts of any system. It is the pursuit of "exclusivity". As its name implies, the integrative integrates. It is the pursuit of "inclusivity". The normative treats differences, diversity and deviation as enemies or "disease", i.e. antagonistically. The integrative welcomes creative, independent thinking. It views differences and diversity as richness and fulfillment. On page four of Chapter One, you quoted Gandhi - "Our ability to reach unity in diversity will be the beauty and test of our civilization." This epitomizes the "integrative" view of life.

I interpreted the piece by Robert Gerard on page 37 - "Emissaries from Heaven" - as a very accurate description of those who the clairvoyant was referring to as the ones for whom I was to help pave the way.

You refer several times to "old energy" and "new energy". I call those same issues the "normative" and the "integrative" views of life. You also talk about a unique trait of Indigo children being that they know their purpose. An integrative view of life is founded (grounded, centered,) in purpose. It's the essential, core frame of reference from which all other decisions are made. That's a stark contrast to a normative view, which focuses on faithfully perpetuating the accepted forms and processes, (the norms) that already exist. Doreen Virtue "hit the nail on the head" when she wrote "We learned many of our parenting behaviors from our own parents, the media or even parenting classes. Unfortunately, these sources are all products of the old energy. They don't work in situations involving the new energy."

This "old energy- new energy" conflict is by no means limited to parenting. It's literally everything. All our social institutions are "normative". They are all violently opposed to what Indigo's represent. To them, it is destruction of their norms, their "way of life", which, interestingly enough, is self-destructive because it worships the material and denigrates the spiritual. Conversely, the integrative or Indigo view perpetuates life by integrating both its spiritual and material dimensions.

I was particularly struck by the writings of Robert Ocker. I believe he is also what you call an Indigo, which I call an integrative.

The reason I copied Thom Hartmann on this correspondence is because he has also tackled the subject of misdiagnosing ADD/ADHD. If you're not familiar with Thom, go to his website - Thom tackles the issue of misdiagnosing ADD/ADHD from the standpoint of "hunters in a farmer's world". These are synonymous with formative and integrative thinkers compared to normative thinkers. As you pointed out, following your Gandhi quote "The end of this millennium signals a higher consciousness of love and acceptance of all people - something we could have learned centuries ago from the native cultures, if only we hadn't perceived them as inferior." I believe it's accurate for me to say that the "native cultures" were "hunters".

In Chapter Four, where you tackle the ADD/ADHD issue, Doreen Virtue wrote "Is Compliance Healthy?". Compliance is the "golden rule" of a normative system. It is dedicated to control of people, for the sake of compliance to its norms, because that's what perpetuates the norms. Now, picture a kid being pressured to comply with rules that he or she knows make no sense. The choices are to comply, and literally sell out your soul, your reason for being, or not. Because Indigo kids are who they are, they really only have one option - NOT. The result is the inevitable conflict Ryan Maluski and Candice Creelman describe. I have a small network of friends. I have three children, 32 to 40 years old, who you would call "Indigo". We all have the same essential life story as Ryan and Candice. Only the degrees of conflict are different, not its essential nature.

A few times in your book, you mention that Indigo children "cannot see the consequences of their actions" because they are so dedicated to living in the "now". You're absolutely right about "living in the now", but I don't believe that's the reason they appear not to see the consequences of their actions. First of all, they don't fully accept, as "real", the "normative" view. Even after they live with it for years, they can't, or don't want to, believe that other humans can have such, what to them, is a thoroughly senseless view of life. People who would unquestioningly abide by so many rules that are obviously dysfunctional can't actually be "alive", can they? They must, by definition, be some kind of robot or automaton. An integrative, or "Indigo" doesn't want to accept that, but it's this perspective that causes the "royalty" syndrome. (If you want a great read on this issue, read Ludwig von Bertalanffy's Robots, Men and Minds. It's out of print, but if you can't find a copy and want one, I'll send you mine. Ludwig von Bertalanffy was also the father of General Systems Theory and clearly an "Indigo".)

Secondly, there are, as I learned from a very wise psychologist years ago, only two primary human motivations - avoiding negative consequences and pursuing possibilities. The normative view strives for control of processes in order to insure outcomes, that is, "predictability". A normative person is extremely conscious of consequences, especially those that will threaten his or her acceptance by any organization in which he or she wishes to participate (school, business, church, whatever). But predictability bores the hell out of Indigos. They live for the unknown, the "what might show up", the "possibilities". Secure Indigos deliberately act without regard for consequences just to find out what might or could happen. It's how they open the doors for inclusion of difference and diversity, for making connections that the normative world could never make, for "synchronicity". For example, I wrote Meaning because I felt it was important. I didn't know about the ADD/ADHD connection or Indigo Children back then - and here we are.

Following Candice Creelman's piece, you wrote "Even though they come in feeling 'expanded', as Ryan said, that very staple of their personality can be beat out of them." You bet. That's precisely what the normative systems they live in are trying to do, because that "expanded", enlightened view is the supreme threat to "the way we've always done things around here".

I was particularly taken with Candice Creelman's story because it epitomizes why I wrote Meaning. I wrote it precisely to answer the question she spent years asking "Why have I been treated so badly?". That's her version of "Why does my best stuff get me into the most trouble?" In one version or another, this is a fundamental question that universally eats at Indigos/integratives.

And one other point, about "love". Love means two entirely different things in the normative world and the integrative world. In the normative world it means "need" - co-dependence, as in "I need you to be who I need you to be in order to fill the holes in me." In the integrative world it means "What I want most for you is your authentic self, the chance to be who you really are at your most essential level, the freedom of your soul."

I would like to send you, and all contributing authors who would like one, a complimentary review copy of Meaning, to find out if you see potential benefit to Indigos and their parents. Most of the examples in the book come from the world of business, since that's been my base of experience. However, since writing the book, Margaret Thorpe (the book's editor and another of the few "advance force" folks) and I have written several articles applying its principles to other social institutions. These may be of interest also, especially the one about education. These articles are posted on other web sites, which gives you an idea of where I'm finding receptivity.


These two articles focus on Organizational Development and company culture.

Why Most Work Isn't Meaningful, Why Companies Can't Attract and Retain Talented People - and How It Can All Change -
Tom Terez wrote an excellent book entitled 22 Keys to a Meaningful Workplace. This article was written for that book's website - The article itself is at

Celebrate the Outlaws
Systems Thinking Press published this article. It is a sister company to the Centre for Strategic Management. Together, they are a significant resource for applying systems thinking to life, in general, and business, in particular.
Systems Thinking Press is at
The Centre for Strategic Management is at
The article is at


This article applies the principles of systems to our American educational system. Its title is The Basis of Genius or The Essential Flaw in our Education System and How to Fix It.
It was published by the Online Noetic Network - a meeting place for "Cultural Creatives" - people on the forefront of transformation. ONN's URL is The article can be found at


This article - Fear and Anxiety: They're in the System - discloses the root cause of the generalized fear and anxiety that so heavily influences the lives of normal people. It was published by the Association of Humanistic Psychology, which was founded on Dr. Abraham Maslow's view of human potential, in its December/January 2001 issue of Perspective.
AHP's website is
The article will appear on this website in the next couple of weeks under the December/January issue of Perspectives.


This is an article that explains Why Things Don't Work, based on the nature of systems and, specifically, normative human systems. It was published by Quest of the Unquietmind, a "webjournal of thoughtful dissent" that publishes social commentary, cultural critique and observations on our "human condition". It's home page is The article is on

If any of you would like to know more about the book before asking for a review copy, visit its website - If you want a copy of Meaning, please respond to this e-mail, giving me a physical mailing address. I will send this message as a letter to those contributing authors who did not have e-mail addresses posted on the IndigoChild website.

Cliff Havener

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